Curse

Aba · Apr 22, 2008, 12:26 AM // 00:26

Quote:

Everyone is a close-minded sheep these days. Baaaah I have Splinter Barrage Baaah. U got HB? ::drools on shirt:: Woot gogo kick the mesmer lets go.

That is what is wrong with gw.

You sir are a riot,PvE at its best

Fates · Apr 22, 2008, 12:45 AM // 00:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Horseman Of War

The community is so unimaginative, that we cant even come up with builds that are better than 5 ursans & 3 monks. ....

That's an easy one, 6 ursan and 2 monks. 3 monks is a waste of killing power. Any FoW group with 3 monks is noob. :P

Quote:

Originally Posted by Horseman of War

...Woot gogo kick the mesmer lets go.

and that's different than pvp how? Oh wait, the mesmer never gets a group. my bad.

Magikarp · Apr 22, 2008, 12:48 AM // 00:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fates Monk

That's an easy one, 6 ursan and 2 monks. 3 monks is a waste of killing power. Any FoW group with 3 monks is noob. :P

hahahaha

....
....
....

its funny cause its sad...

Fates · Apr 22, 2008, 12:49 AM // 00:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magikarp

hahahaha

....
....
....

its funny cause its sad...

I agree, but unfortunately its the truth.

R.Shayne · Apr 22, 2008, 03:31 AM // 03:31

Instead of nerfing the heck out of a skill so that is no longer over used in pvp and adversely affect pve, why not temporarily remove the skill from pvp and force other builds to be used for a while.

I still believe that unlocking skill bars in pvp and make it so skills can be changed during matches is the only way to ensure no build cannot be countered but I don't know if that feature could be added to the game.

Savio · Apr 22, 2008, 03:36 AM // 03:36

The point of the skillbar is that you make decisions about those 8 skills you bring. Removing that blows up balance and requires a total redesign of the game.

Also, since it cannot be repeated enough, that something can be countered doesn't make it balanced.

Makkert · Apr 22, 2008, 04:37 AM // 04:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Numa Pompilius

I still think the worst idea in GW history was the PvE only skills. They broke the game.

Your logic is flawed. PvE only skills are a great idea. The fact that their current execution is not the best (using an understatement), is a different matter. The idea is still good. It enables ANet to fill the very different needs of the Pve / PvP crowd.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Numa Pompilius

I also still think uncoupling PvE and PvP is a fundamentally idiotic idea.

I disagree. See above. It would be nice however, if PvE players are at least able to play with the same skills as used in PvP while playing PvE, so that they can get used to the skills. So, basicly as it is now. But I don't know if it will remain this way, pondering over the meaning of the dev update notes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by zwei2stein

we DO have PvP only skills:

Frenzy for example.

While some may use it in PvE, I think this is close to the truth. People make too much fuzz about 'pve only' skills.

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Originally Posted by zwei2stein

There is even PvE-only version of this skill (Flail)

And here you just nullified your previous intelligent remark, by making a statement that is far off the truth. Just watch the hammer warriors in pvp.

Quote:

In order to reduce the possible negative impact on PvE play, we will be reverting the changes on May 1st. For future tournaments, we aim to focus on changes that will not impact PvE play at all.

It would be nice to hear from an ANet source exactly how they want to realise this in the future. There are some good ways to realise this (unlock pvp / pve) and some terrible ones (pve leading over pvp in making skillbalances)

LifesRestorer · Apr 22, 2008, 04:33 PM // 16:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fates Monk

and that's different than pvp how? Oh wait, the mesmer never gets a group. my bad.

lol. less bullshit please. mesmer is a staple in any balanced team as it allows the 'bend the rules' if you will. it can add recharge to vital skills with diversion, can deplete a character of energy in seconds and generally be the biggest pain in the ass a character will ever have to deal with.

The reason you don't see many mesmers in HA, or wherever you're looking in the scrubfest of the pug world is because mesmer is arguably the hardest class in GW to play effectively. The difference between a good and a bad mesmer for example is far greater than the difference between a good and a bad elementalist. Therefore, to make it easier to form pugs, builds are made with less reliance on the mesmer while in co-ordinated guild/friend list teams, a mesmers performance can make or break a game.

Ctb · Apr 22, 2008, 04:40 PM // 16:40

This thread sure went into the crapper in a hurry there at the end....

Magikarp · Apr 22, 2008, 05:15 PM // 17:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ctb

This thread sure went into the crapper in a hurry there at the end....

yeah i gave up on it a while ago..

Esan · Apr 22, 2008, 06:58 PM // 18:58

Show me a thread that hasn't exhausted its topic by page 3 and I'll show you a portal to the mythical Xunlai Marketplace.

Creeping Carl · Apr 22, 2008, 09:47 PM // 21:47

Seeing some of the posts by my fellow PVE'ers in here, I'm once again embarassed. The irrational and illogical rants against balance and gameplay, the baseless and senseless hatred towards anything PVP, what the hell is wrong with you people? Has the constant clicking of killing mob after mob turned the PVE crowd into idiotic zombies?

bel unbreakable · Apr 22, 2008, 10:04 PM // 22:04

i think its more like the shit coming in the other direction to be honest

Yichi · Apr 22, 2008, 10:18 PM // 22:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Creeping Carl

Seeing some of the posts by my fellow PVE'ers in here, I'm once again embarassed. The irrational and illogical rants against balance and gameplay, the baseless and senseless hatred towards anything PVP, what the hell is wrong with you people? Has the constant clicking of killing mob after mob turned the PVE crowd into idiotic zombies?

Quote:

Originally Posted by bel unbreakable

i think its more like the shit coming in the other direction to be honest

oh shi.. ITS ON!!! RACE WARZ!!!!!!!

for serious reply... It is always someone who wants to do nothing but put the blame solely on someone else (see example above) that yes there have been alot of useless bullshit whining posts made in this thread, and yet someone comes along and takes offense to it and has to post yet another one...

As long as anyone who makes a comment towards skill balance isn't open minded and can fully comprehend the issue comming from both sides, these stupid remarks and comments will always happen, thus leading to the divide between PvE and PvP.

Magikarp · Apr 22, 2008, 10:25 PM // 22:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Creeping Carl

Seeing some of the posts by my fellow PVE'ers in here, I'm once again embarassed. The irrational and illogical rants against balance and gameplay, the baseless and senseless hatred towards anything PVP, what the hell is wrong with you people? Has the constant clicking of killing mob after mob turned the PVE crowd into idiotic zombies?

there are irrational, and rational sides to both the pvp, and the pve side of the debate. to come in here, and call all of us pve'ers idiots, because we're tired of stale, monotonous gameplay, and the lack of care shown during the pvp based "skill balances", is basically your own, hypocritical version of what you just testified against..

Creeping Carl · Apr 22, 2008, 10:42 PM // 22:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magikarp

there are irrational, and rational sides to both the pvp, and the pve side of the debate. to come in here, and call all of us pve'ers idiots, because we're tired of stale, monotonous gameplay, and the lack of care shown during the pvp based "skill balances", is basically your own, hypocritical version of what you just testified against..

I encourage you to read what I wrote again. I didnt say ALL PVE players are like this. Bolded for your conveniance. And it's silly for me to call all PVE players idiots since I and my friends are PVE!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Creeping Carl

Seeing some of the posts by my fellow PVE'ers in here, I'm once again embarassed. The irrational and illogical rants against balance and gameplay, the baseless and senseless hatred towards anything PVP, what the hell is wrong with you people? Has the constant clicking of killing mob after mob turned the PVE crowd into idiotic zombies?

The reason I focused on criticizing the PVE side is because there are far more rants against ANYTHING to do with balance from the PVE side than from the PVP side. Even as a PVE player myself, I see a lot of unjustified complaints from my fellow PVE players more so than from the PVP side. Maybe because there are a lot more PVE players than PVP? It doesnt matter though, if people are going to be irrational then I'm going to feel compelled to point it out.

LifesRestorer · Apr 22, 2008, 10:45 PM // 22:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by bel unbreakable

i think its more like the shit coming in the other direction to be honest

thankyou for making my day with such an epic +1
thats literally the best response i've ever seen.

Creeping Carl · Apr 22, 2008, 10:53 PM // 22:53

And to clarify what I mean by irrational arguments, take for example the argument against balance in PVE because "monsters don't complain about overpowered skills". If that is a valid argument then why have any limitation in the PVE game at all then? What's the point in level progression then? With such an extreme "argument" one can only ask what's the point of any game if there's no point in game balance since "monsters dont complain?"

It's arguments like that which makes me and other PVE players look like f-in idiots.

Magikarp · Apr 22, 2008, 11:04 PM // 23:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Creeping Carl

I encourage you to read what I wrote again. I didnt say ALL PVE players are like this. Bolded for your conveniance. And it's silly for me to call all PVE players idiots since I and my friends are PVE!

The reason I focused on criticizing the PVE side is because there are far more rants against ANYTHING to do with balance from the PVE side than from the PVP side. Even as a PVE player myself, I see a lot of unjustified complaints from my fellow PVE players more so than from the PVP side. Maybe because there are a lot more PVE players than PVP? It doesnt matter though, if people are going to be irrational then I'm going to feel compelled to point it out.

its pointless to point it out to begin with. maybe that's what i should have pointed out the first time i responded to you post.

there are just as many dummies in pvp as there are in pve, as far as the ratio goes. yeah, theres a lot more of us playing pve, way more, but its like 70% have no idea what they're talking about, and the rest are either casual, and just having fun, or know whats up in the community/economy. those same percentages imo seem to apply to pvp'ers as well (me doing both, i see these things all the time), and to claim one side of the community is worse, or stupider than the other isn't a very wise assessment of the general point at all, and in fact just causes nothing more than distress for yourself, when the real issues at hand have nothing to do with a personal opinion of what the state of the community is from your point of view.

im not saying your assessment is necessarily incorrect, its just not a valid point in this debate, nor is it necessary to point out something we've all witnessed, in both pve, and pvp.

Creeping Carl · Apr 22, 2008, 11:12 PM // 23:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magikarp

its pointless to point it out to begin with. maybe that's what i should have pointed out the first time i responded to you post.

Well that's kind of ironic on your part, isnt it? Pointing out to me that it's pointless to point something out?

And it's pretty much unavoidable discussing the mentality of PVE/PVP since this IS a thread about balance between these two playstyles. And how the mentalities and playstyles clashed so much to the point that ANET is now working towards separating them.

I usually keep out of these threads but I saw too much of the PVE crowd swaying towards a direction that I didnt like so I wanted to add MY view on the PVE playstyle.

Or is stating a stance a pointless thing in your view?